- cross-posted to:
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
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I don’t really understand after reading the article what changed? All they did was quote discords blog post from February and this random twitter account … that also had no sources.
Not to mention the article is AI slop.
Is this like some sort of reminder or something? huh?
Oh right discord, I forgot they still exist XD
Wish I could delete it again
Google Wallet users can share a passport ID pass; Google sends Discord a birthdate, and Discord derives age from it without retaining that date.
… if google wallet is determining it anyway, why can’t google wallet just reply yes or no to the “is over 17” query… it seems like discord wouldn’t need to know exact age at all in that flow.
In sane countries the government has a neutral service, backed by laws securing anonymity of verification, for this kind of shit. Only in commercial, dystopian, kleptocracies does it seem reasonable to have a company doing this.
While that is nice. Here in the kelptocracy not having a federal ID system is intentional and it has really slowed down the Nazis.
it would have to ask daily, because you can be 15 today and 16 tomorrow (idk what the age cutoff is), but it also says the date isn’t retained so you might be onto something
Everybody says the data isn’t retained. It’s very stylish, today, to claim to delete unused data, at least until it get breached
That’s a wide opening for a lawsuit, though. This is the kind of thing they’re probably telling the truth about, at least in as much as what they intend to do.
Even then, the prompt could be as easy as a “recheck” button that the user sees on age restricted media. Kind of like how their age verification bucket was going to be. Database side all they need to know is a boolean of true or false of if they are a minor or not. or /maybe/ a trinary (0,1,2) system if that wanted a distinguishment of < 13 13-17 and 18+ It doesn’t have to check daily, it only has to check when the user requests access to age restricted stuff.
Already have sharkord hosted via a VPS via linode, so no worries about uptime. Fuck discord, open source for the win.
Time to delete account 👋
Literally like they said they would.
Discord is perhaps the most unnecessary and readily replaceable service and they don’t seem to realize how short their time is
It’s absolutely possible to build a discord replacement
The real issue is convincing people to move
Yeah I’d move if the groups I’m in moved too
This.
A friend of mine went through the trouble of setting up a whole Matrix server with the Sable client when the first rumblings of this came up late last year.
Everything was made and readily available for everyone one we knew to move over. They just had to make an account and that was it.
Nobody came.
Nobody fucking came.
Its just me and two of my other friends on there, because despite everyone crying how Discord is doing something bad, when it comes to it they have nothing but excuses.
“But all my friends are here…”
“But there’s a videogame community I’m part of…”
“I don’t understand. It’s too complicated…”
“I’ll move if it really gets bad…”
ICE in America is using AI profiling to get rid of or straight up murder peoole, trained on data which includes everything the age verification spyware in Discord sends directly to them. But they don’t care. Their convenience is lore important than the lives of people.
So fuck them.
Yeah it’s difficult convincing people due to sunken cost.
You could be chatting on a better platform that offers everything discord offers for free but you’d have to convince your friends and the servers you frequent to all move.
It’s not about the platform itself as much as it’s about the communities that are all already there.
Even the one person I know who is terrified of losing her account and preemptively set up alternatives on other platforms still won’t leave until something forces her.
Same with a local queer server that made an XMPP server. Only 4 (including me) actually made an account. The only reason ANYBODY joined is because were all anarchists but for most lazyness outweighed paranoia
Yea this right here. People don’t remember, the only reason everyone left Skype in the first place, wasn’t because of skypes enshittification, although that didn’t help.
It was because during skypes implementation of said enshittification, their uptime was almost non-existent. Cloud servers crashed constantly, the linux program for it was unusable and required reinstall every time you opened. Messages weren’t sending and people weren’t getting notifications or history. People were forced to go elsewhere in order to remain in contact, so people moved to discord. The more people who moved the faster the transition become. Eventually everyone realized “Wow this is such a better product” and decided to stay.
So you are saying we need to to DDOS Discord? /hjk
there already exist discord clones like fluxer and stoat, but not a lot of people are there yet
I run a trans discord server for an IRL group. We’ve looked at alternatives for obvious reasons, but we’re still on discord. All the alternatives we looked at come with some compromises. Often they lack some critical feature of discord. And while self hosting is great for an individual, it becomes a liability for a group as now that one individual has a great deal of responsibility and power over the rest of the group. And some alternatives are no where near as approachable as discord.
None of these problems are insurmountable, but they’re also not something that is as easy to brush aside as a lot of tech enthusiasts claim. Our current stance in our group is that we’ll stick with discord for now. If they start flagging our channel as adult content and demand ID to access it, at that point we’ll select one of the alternatives. The drawbacks of the other platforms aren’t deal breakers for us. But at present the hassle of discord’s bullshit isn’t enough for us to overcome the hassle of the alternatives and the transition. We’re aware of alternatives and keeping them in our back pocket, but for now we’re sticking with discord.
We’ve looked at alternatives for obvious reasons, but we’re still on discord. All the alternatives we looked at come with some compromises. Often they lack some critical feature of discord.
I’m no discord user so unlikely I will have an answer, but if you genuinely looking for help you should list what those critical features are (I mean the fact that those services don’t have these features means they weren’t critical for the devs that created them).
Ideally you could list service that was closest to what you want and the features that it was still missing.
I’m not genuinely looking for help. I’m sharing my experiences not looking for tech support.
I wouldn’t say Stoat. Too many missing features. Fluxer doesn’t have Federation or E2EE yet.
Sable currently is the best drop-in replacement for Discord.
Why does a Discord clone need federation?
Discord is about persistent text chat and non-persistent voice chat. The medium is way more limiting than a single server’s hardware. Each virtual chat server only being on a single (maybe mirrored) physical server shouldn’t be a problem.The big thing that made Discord so popular is being able to make one account and join multiple communities, often about specific subjects. To use that exact same account to freely communicate, including direct messages, with members of these communities, and have one friend list attached to your account.
Only ways you can have this is either through centralisation or Federation. Centralisation has proven to be junk.
Laughs in stoat and fluxer
I even found a replacement called Fluxer that let’s you import your server and all their channels, plus the livestreams don’t run at 2fps like Matrix but my friends still are too lazy to move, it’s frustrating.
in the embedded jitsi based calls you can set the screen share fps in its own settings. if your server uses element call, I don’t think you need such a setting?
Streaming over Matrix seems to work just fine with me and my friends. Might be the client we’re using, or the fact it’s a self-hosted server.
Might be, I made my channel in the default matrix server and was using the default program Element too, and when I streamed a game to my friend he said it was extremely choppy.
Oh, well, yeah. That explains it then. The default matrix server isn’t good for anything because its bitrate is low, yet everyone makes an account there.
So you have a limited bitrate anf thousands of people to serve. Fluxer is the same. It’s just not as bad yet because there aren’t as many people there.
If you’re approaching Matrix like a centralised service, you’re doing it wrong. You must set up a server for you and your friends, and then federate with the rest of Matrix.
It’s surprisingly hard for normal people to get a chat server running and maintained. It’s the same like with forums. We need something like Lemmy for persistent chat. The software isn’t really the problem - it’s literally just single-server chat with message persistence. Someone needs to host it free-to-use - that’s what made Discord successful.
readily replaceable
I think the last time they tried this showed just how NOT replaceable they are. Every alternative lacks critical features or is still so deep in development that a workable, scalable product is still years away. And that’s not even touching the difficulty of getting people to move.
People switched from mumble and teamspeak to discord because it offered more features and worked better in all but a few edge cases. In the years since, nothing else has been developed that even comes close to matching all the things it does. If you think it’s as simple as slapping together a VoIP program with a chat feature, you are vastly underestimating what every day users would want.
Sable already offers most of the features of Discord, even ones otherwise locked behind the Nitro pay wall.
What’s more difficult is getting people to move. There’s always excuses, and nothing is EVER going to be the exact same as Discord. So the excuses become progressively more granular.
Is it though?
I don’t mind making another account, but I’ll have a hard time convincing many of my friends.
They managed to move to discord at one point, they can do it again
Oh, yes. If I mention that “well you’ve made an account before” they will immediately be convinced.
I am still going to try, don’t take my prior comment as me throwing in the towel, but the chances are slim I’ll be able to convince all the people I’d want to. And even if they make an account, chances are they’ll rarely boot up the app and forget about it.
Discord has a certain critical mass that will be difficult to beat.
I hope it helps boost up Matrix as people look to jump ship, I’m pretty happy with Fluffychat.
Does fluffy chat have voice channels?
Fluffy is has voice experimentally right now. But element and sable have the most feature rich voice chat
Honestly not something I’ve used so I’ve truely no clue, the good thing about Matrix though is all the choices of client and I’m sure some will.
I have high hopes for matrix, but the last time I tried it, alot of the clients were close but not all the way there. Have you a recommendation for me to check out? Last one i tried was element
Cinny is ok.
Check out Sable. Me and my friend were in the exact same boat, but then we found Sable.
The selfie method stands out: on-device processing with no video retained is a meaningful privacy distinction.
Yea I don’t buy it
Yea I don’t buy it
Good. No one should. Not at least after the data breach. I ain’t giving them shit.
That quote from the article also sounds like AI wrote that bit.
It 100% is. That’s a Claude-ism if I ever saw one.
I read too much AI slop for a living to know.
The whole article was AI written, the headings the “voice” scream AI
Yeah, this just means, if true, it’s totally ineffective. It’ll be hacked to bypass it if it’s all local, which means people wanting to avoid it will.
For people that want advice for finding an alternative service, go to the github repo and figure out the state of development. Find the answers to these questions: how many active developers are there? when was the last commit? does this look like LLM code? What do the issues and PRs look like? Remember that we don’t want to have to do this again in 10 years, so open source and decentralized are major points.
Fluxer?
Vibe coded slop by one person. It is not really an open source project if nobody can work on it.
Fluxer has no E2EE yet, and no Federation. But it’s very easy to set up your own server.
It’s also very easy to set up your own Matrix server with Tuwunel or Continuwuity. I don’t know about the state of hosting your own XMPP server, but I assume it’s just as easy.
My friend has set up his Matrix server with Continuwuity (what a name…) and it required quite a bit of technical knowledge. With Fluxer you basically don’t need any technical knowledge.
For comparison, it took my friend about a day or two to set up his Matrix server with Sable as his client, and make sure everything was running smoothly. We managed to set up a Fluxer test server within 30 minutes.
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debian community is migrating to Fluxer, but a lot of people in that community are still asking for IRC, which has “discord-like” front-ends nowadays, so idk why not. It would allow anyone to use any client they want.
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yes but ai slop article
I’m so fucking tired of AI slop
yesterday I even got google AI search summaries quoting Meta AI summaries of people’s public facebook comments
like guys I just want to know the fucking difference between these two driveway sealer products, I don’t need a 1000 word AI generated food blog post on the incorrect reasons why sealing is important
Good thing Matrix and XMPP exist as alternatives.
If I start getting straight-up locked out of Discord unless I show my face or ID, I’mma just stop using it full stop.
I mean, shit, Discord’s already getting ridiculous with their Nitro ads. No, Discord, I don’t want Nitro, stop asking me. No needs to start meaning no again.
and Fluxer, it seems the most feature complete
Matrix honestly sucks ass and is full of spambots posting illegal content
Xmpp is too confusing for most people
I agree with Matrix Sucking, it needs very heavy work on both frontend and backend implementations to be taken serious, that’s why I stopped pushing it to my friend groups, the people I convinced to join ended up needing features it just doesn’t support yet, like an actual permission system instead of the numeric based > x style, or actual custom emote capability that isn’t a patchwork decided by the software and the huge barrier of getting started. People don’t want to have to pick through 30 different frontends to find one that works perfectly for a server.
Matrix works amazingly for the techies, or for people who want a limited IRC style feature set. But for for the casuals who are used to what discord provides, it just isn’t a good competitor. It’s complicated to get going, isn’t unified and lacks features. Most people I have tried to suggest it have bailed due to that not long after joining.
XMPP being difficult though? I hard disagree. It’s well maintained, it’s super established, and for the most part unlike matrix whom decided frontend needed to make decisions on feature-sets, everything on XMPP is backend based. You have the same issues as matrix client wise but, for the most part client feature-sets are universal due to how long it’s been out. I would push XMPP long before I go back to pushing matrix again. I have had better luck keeping/maintaining people on XMPP than I have with matrix.
I’m not verifying my old age with any online service. They can go fuck themselves.
My discord account itself is 11 years old now, most of my accounts are, but they still need to age check me. What did I set it up which n I was 4?
The age verification isn’t to check age, agree is r excuse they want to tie the account to you.
Gotta have massive surveillance in a fascist society.