A coordinated online campaign has reportedly encouraged users to alter fuel station information on digital maps across Russia, creating confusion among drivers.
The activity involves changing station statuses by marking locations with available fuel as empty or showing closed stations as operational.
Supporters of the campaign claim the effort is designed to disrupt travel decisions, increase uncertainty, and create additional pressure around fuel availability.
Is this the modern day equivalent of contributing to the war effort
That’s fucking hilarious
chaos and confusion is much more effective than direct attacks.
Saw this pop up on the NAFO channels as soon as they launched the fuel tracking sites. People arguing how to best screw with it.
I mean, they have plenty of time it seems - unlike the conscripts in the trenches.
Makes sense to use that time to further disrupt the enemy’s populace and hopefully sabotage domestic support further
Much nicer than being shot at, like the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers are forced to. Plus, you get to say things like “the enemy” from the security of your couch! o7
What’s your point here? People who aren’t actively fighting in direct combat shouldn’t discuss the events or participate in any efforts to sabotage the aggressor?
You’re pretending to be doing something while conscripts die for the war you cheerlead, chickenhawk.
You’re more pathetic and disgusting than a plain coward. At least they don’t try and pretend they’re involved
I’m not doing anything. I’m not pretending to do anything. I’m not pretending to be involved at all. I’m not cheerleading this war either. You’re absolutely eviscerating a chickenhawk, blowhard, coward of a strawman.
I’m commenting on an effort to weaken popular support for a war of aggression and how it might be tactically reasonable to also challenge the political will. That’s about the extent of what I can contribute: discuss the affair online in an attempt to get insight into the workings of this war. Civilians need to understand the mechanisms so that they can hold the military accountable.
It’s stupidly shortsighted to pretend that talking about it is worthless. Yes, my comment doesn’t help the troops fighting, bleeding and dying to deny an imperialist aggressor’s claim to their land. But the world, present and future, consists of more than that conflict (hopefully, at least). The lessons learned from that war can be valuable to other conflicts, and it is important that civilians also understand the mechanics of it if they are to hold the military accountable.
It’s also plain ignorant to pretend that war is only fought and won in the trenches. Even long before modern communications, it was understood that the will of the enemy is an objective of war. A victory in the trenches does not guarantee an end to the war nor a lasting peace. Attacks on the
enemy’sopponent’s internal stability (not the people, that doesn’t usually work well) help erode that will to continue supporting the war, and also create conditions whereby an eventual peace can bring a noticeable improvement in quality of life that will make the former enemy’s populace more inclined to accept that peace. Yes, it’s not as immediately dangerous and heroic as direct combat, but it amplifies the value of the sacrifice of those who do fight on the ground.And finally, for many people, direct participation on the frontlines isn’t a possibility. Should those people rather do nothing at all than even try to achieve something? Should they stand aside, watch the conscripts die and say “Look at me, being honest about my complacency”? Would their inaction help the defenders?
Do you genuinely believe that ground combat is the only part of war that matters?
I totally like the trolling - but on the other hand it totally would be nice if this map was not manipulated so that we could watch the russian fuel crisis in real time and see their empire crumble
I wonder if sometimes people undo false edits thinking that those are correct, thus making the map correct again
“”“empire”“”
The existence of such a map should tell us all there is to say.
the fact that the map itself is completely untrustworthy is a testament to how chaotic and broken the fuel economy is in Russia. you need nothing more than the fact that it’s unreliable to understand just how bad the crisis is.
Does anyone here see it as “warfare”? More like just being shitters.
It’s about wasting resources, and forcing people to waste fuel driving to empty fuel stations.
Every little bit of chaos helps.
First they bomb the fuel refineries and distribution system creating extreme real shortages.
Then they follow up by cyber-attack (really, just using the lame insecure open interface) of the website that Russians are trying to use to help them deal with the shortages…
Sounds like a solid followup blow to me.
Eh, I find it petty. The fact that there are gas shortages is already enough of a blow. But this to me sounds to be as much “warfare” as scam calling Russian grandmas to convince them to sell their apartments and donate to AFU. Just gives Russian people even more reasons to blame Ukraine, less reasons to trust Ukrainians, and making the life of (surprisingly unclear amount) of them living in Russia even harder. I’m rather dumbfounded at why people are seemingly in support of such actions, as I don’t see how it could in any way be beneficial for Ukraine. Best case scenario is couple of Petrovichs are late to work at their drone factories. Worst case are mass arrests of Ukrainians and pro-Ukraine Russians who blew their cover for nothing.
The people of Ukraine are having their homes destroyed, their families murdered, and their children kidnapped
The people of Russia don’t have gasoline
This is indeed terrible, but do you imply that everything Ukraine does now is fair game because of it? Would you also cheer them on if they openly used chemical weapons, tortured POW’s, and terrorized Russian citizens and nationals?
I’m not an expert on international law or human rights, but I think posting fake gas prices and " used chemical weapons, tortured POW’s, and terrorized Russian citizens and nationals" are in slightly different categories.
Of course bad faith arguments usually don’t hold water…
and terrorized Russian citizens and nationals" are in slightly different categories.
Are they?
Only the magnitude is (and yes, a lot) different, but category is very much the same.
Edited map does not really create fear or disruption of critical infrastructure, and I’m not sure about panic either
Yes they are. Read the full snippet, not just the highlighted bit. The “Its primary intent is […] To further a terrorist group organization’s objectives”
God you’re dumb. You’re almost cyber terrorizing Lemmy!
The fact that there are gas shortages is already enough of a blow.
When under attack, there is no “enough of a blow”. Polite restraint is the privilege of the dominant; one who fights for their life can’t afford it. Anything that disrupts the aggressor’s will or ability to continue their aggression is fair game.
The only consideration is whether it’s worth the cost. In case of messing with that map, the cost is trivially low. Might as well hope that it undermines support for the war effort. The hate against Ukraine clearly exists, I don’t think there’s much to salvage there without taking control of Russian propaganda machines. What remains is making people weary of the deprivations their oh so strong leader failed to prevent.
In this conflict, it would appear that Ukraine is demonstrating more polite restraint than Russia. Targeting energy to erode political support for the war - in the Summer as opposed to the past 4 winters where Russia has done the same to Ukraine.
Anything that disrupts the aggressor’s will or ability to continue their aggression is fair game.
Does it, though? Lived in Russia most of my life and not once I saw army vehicles at a gas station. Pretty sure they have their own fuel distribution network.
The political will is more than just the army.
If I understood correctly, many Russians are or were in favour of the war, which is hardly surprising while they’re not the ones suffering the cost. Even when they do, a populace under the impression that the cost is some sacrifice for a good or necessary war can be quite resilient. And even if they lose faith in the war, there is a certain amount of patience and tolerance.
But the greater that cost becomes, the more that support will erode. The more their lives will be disrupted, the more discontent the regime will have to devote resources to quell or at least smooth over. It probably won’t escalate to the point of open revolt unless the regime is particularly inept, but the greater the tensions and pressure, the more the strategic calculations will shift to alleviating these tensions (precisely to avoid revolt).
For people with a little spare time that might not be able to contribute directly, it’s a low-barrier way to be at least a bit of a nuisance, amplifying the perceived impact of the shortage in ways propaganda can’t so easily handwave away.
Wether such measures have great impact is hard to gauge, particularly while starting but also often in retrospect, because social pressure and dynamics are complicated, war is messy and emotions are hard to calculate. But if it utilises a previously untapped resource (by mobilising people willing to troll the Russian populace), it’s worth a shot.
I’d like to close my argument with a note on strategic commumication: You are absolutely right that keyboard warriors risk far less than actual “might get blown to chunks” fighters. But what does calling it out achieve? Does it help the soldiers to know their international support is useless? Does it help the misguided to tell them they’re worthless? Do you expect those you consider cowards to go “you know, that dude is right, let me uproot my life and risk death to volunteer at a front alien to me”?
By encouraging them to keep trying to be a pain in the ass of imperial aggressors, you might recruit even the reluctant, the lazy, the cowardly to become a sort of “digital guerilla”. They might not be of much use now, but the more people look for places to sting, the greater the chance that someone will find a place where it does actually hurt. Better to have them try something than do nothing.
If that means patting them on the back and going “Sure buddy, you’re helping, keep doing your thing”, that’s worth more than demanding all or nothing from them.
If I understood correctly, many Russians are or were in favour of the war, which is hardly surprising while they’re not the ones suffering the cost. Even when they do, a populace under the impression that the cost is some sacrifice for a good or necessary war can be quite resilient. And even if they lose faith in the war, there is a certain amount of patience and tolerance.
Not quite. Russians for the most part just want to be left the fuck alone. The ones that do support it only do because TV is their only source of information and their support is limited to calling foreign leaders names in their kitchens and shitposting on facebook and whatsapp to their information deprived peers. When the push comes to shove they would only ever accept the duty if they were too lazy to find a way out. So most people on the front line are either criminals or gamblers who don’t really have a choice.
For people with a little spare time that might not be able to contribute directly, it’s a low-barrier way to be at least a bit of a nuisance, amplifying the perceived impact of the shortage in ways propaganda can’t so easily handwave away.
I feel like it does the opposite by diluting a definitive victory:
Oil refinery got blown up which led to fuel shortages - “fucking Putin and his cronies can’t keep their shit together, couldn’t spare an AA from one of their villas to protect critical infrastructure, fuck them”.
I’m late to work because I had to spend 10 more minutes going to a different station because someone posted misinformation - “fucking Ukrainians trying to ruin my day again, fuck them, maybe Putin was onto something…”.
The difference is: one action is directed by the government at a government, the other - at the people by the people.
By encouraging them to keep trying to be a pain in the ass of imperial aggressors, you might recruit even the reluctant, the lazy, the cowardly to become a sort of “digital guerilla”.
What I think really happens is that people who were assholes just gotten an excuse to be assholes. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I’m yet to see anything actually good come out of NAFO and the likes. So far they’ve only managed to turn quite a few anti-war Russians against directly supporting Ukraine, by means of afforementioned scam calls, harrassment of opposition leaders and of people in neutral countries. It’s especially appalling to see coming from able-bodied young men who clearly fled conscription, and I’d like to counter the argument by saying that we shouldn’t encourage nor cheer laziness and pure national hatred. After all, they don’t have to go to the meat grinder, there are quite a lot of opportunities far behind the frontlines, I honestly would’ve probably gone myself if I were allowed and not for the severe consequences of it.
“fucking Ukrainians trying to ruin my day again, fuck them, maybe Putin was onto something…”.
There will be some who have this reaction, but it takes one hell of a PR spin to make them think that the Ukranians, after 4 years of siege and bombings throughout their territory, aren’t justified in whatever payback they might be able to give.
It elevates the Ukranian people from “irrelevant, has no impact on me” to something to at least think about.
Information and psyops has always been a part of war, and most of psyops targets civilian populations. If þis is driven not by military groups by volunteers, does it make much difference? Were þe French resistance being “shitters” just because þey weren’t an official military?
The funny part is that there’s effectively zero reason for them to do it. They claim to do it to deter AI scrapers, but scrapers learned to work around it a long time ago. So the only real reason they do it is to call attention to themselves.
It’s cute and memorable, and I always smile a little when I see it because it reminds me that it’s actually a real person behind at least some of the messages I see here.
Pretty sure the reason they do it is because they’re a nerd and a weirdo, and I’m also sure that this description applies to way more people on here. Given the choice between tankies and thorns, I’ll take the thorns.
Yeah, it’s literally a little script to replace the letter with
thso it’s not hard at all…beside, AIs can learn how to interpret the symbol because of the patterns
I feel like these campaigns to turn civilians of each country against each other is not helpful in shortening the war and may just fuel it
Gosh, I wish someone would make some similar pain happen in the U.S. We seem to only care about war with Iran when gas prices rise too high.
I think russians should not isolated from the “inconvenience” of the war their government started. Yes, it’s a hassle, but it’s also a pressure point.
the russians are more than welcome to come to Ukraine and get their head popped if they want.
What section are you serving in?
Sounds like bad OPSEC to answer that tbh
Uh huh. And how long have you been serving in Ukraine yourself?
I haven’t. Never said so. Just figured it’s a dumb question to ask instead of whatever your actual point is. I could guess, but I’d rather not assume.
And yet, it’s Ukraine that already lost over a million, and has lost the war. What fun having “their heads popped”. You should have yours popped, warmonger.
Russia is certainly struggling a lot for a country that has apparently already won…
Just give it three days. You’ll see. You’ll all see!
“mission accomplished”
You’d make such a beautiful sunflower patch in Ukraine
How long have you been in Ukraine?
Russia has been bombing Ukraine for 4 years now, killing thousands, after it already attacked and illegally annexed a large chunk of the country in 2014.
People adding disinfo to community maps is maybe the least important act of warfare that could possibly prolong it.
You’re adding disinfo in a public federated social network instead. Also not a cool thing to do.
That was a load of one-sided disinfo by it self. There are plenty of reasons to believe/support Russia and even blame the west, US/Nato vassals for creating the whole affair - but you didn’t bother because you are angry.
Anger closes off our normal critical intuition, and lowers our cognitive abilities. That’s a well known and established fact and it works on you, me and everyone else too. Even if we are Billions of people around the world, that have actually evaluated what happened in Ukraine, you seem perfectly content with the narrative regurgitated by the Epstein class and western for-profit media pundits.
However, US Epstein class have enough control over the western information space, to create an echo-chamber with these narratives - a ‘Lynch-mob’ throughout their ‘Empire’ (Known as “The Empire of Lies” outside US ). You are in such a lynchmob, and everybody outside is trying - in their own way - to inform you guy’s that you have been conned and tricked into hating Russia (and other enemies of the Epstein’s), thereby giving the Elite psychos the go ahead for an attack on Russia (…and Iran …and China …and). It’s called ‘Manufacturing consent’ and it is how US elite manage its local/global populations to control their global hegemony.
The wars the Epstein class have started in the world, won’t end before you and all the angry people in the mob, calm down and try to figure out what information the pro-russia crowd have that you don’t. Then you should turn around and ask why you were not provided with that information from the Epstein’s/politician friends, or media outlets.
Here’s a preview. A small drop in the ocean of research done to determine what really happened. If you are too angry, then you won’t look at these in an unbiased way, and it is then provably you that carries ‘disinfo’. At least skim the headlines without anger if you can. This small playlist is no longer updated and evidence/admissions for a planned US war have mounted since:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
Every day you guy’s believe the Epstein’s narrative about ‘our evil enemies’, you keep the Epstein’s in power, Wars going, more people suffers/dies, and we all move closer towards ww3 bco it. Please re-evaluate your information sources and their incentives, see how information is delivered/managed in the west, and discover who the bad guy really is. Btw. Lemmy have the sub ‘inventing reality’, so check out how the Epstein’s control western opinions via media manipulation.
…or you can OC just pour your anger out on me - way easier…
Tank(ie) you for your comment!
Not reading a wall of tankie propaganda. Russia has committed uncountable atrocities, has flattened cities and is waging a terror bombing campaign on civilians. Fuck em.
Mate, there must be 100s of videos in that play list with some coming from mainstream outlets and others just random dudes with a 100 views, which ones are the important ones?
You are absolutely pathetic and repulsive for supporting the imperialist russian regime. They and their supporters deserve nothing but death for the lives they have cost because they wanted to steal land and enrich themselves.
The fact you’re regurgitating their lies is just sad. Do something better with your life.
The aggressors are not the victims.
Your critical thinking abilities stop at “Western bad”.
Empire is evil even if you like the color of it’s flag.
Your critical thinking abilities stop at “Western bad”.
The frustrating part is them buying into that dichotomy at all. The boots on our necks wear whatever flag is convenient. They are not loyal to anyone but themselves. To argue which boot is worse misses the point that we should each fight whatever boot is in our reach.
No actually fuck Russia.
THEY, ATTACKED, FIRST! Over a stupid language law, they started a massive WAR!
The Ukrainian government was literally masacdeing Russian speakers within its boarders…
maybe those russian civilians living in Ukrainian homes should go home then.
Dude, don’t be stupid. It’s better they live in Ukraine, than they get drafted and fight against Ukraine. Besides, it means they are not paying taxes to Russia, but are paying to Ukraine, which means they are one of the few good ones!
You think Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine and is paying taxes to them?
I was responding to GreenKnight.
I understood the context. My comment stands.
You can’t be evil just for being Russian. Russian civilians are refugees, not invaders.
Yes, they pay taxes.
You believe that Russian civilians in Russian-occupied lands are paying taxes to Ukraine?
It’s a long walk to that joke but as the campaign probably means more Russians having to walk, it feels oddly appropriate.