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The ability to form political coalitions with people on an issue by issue basis
… is the ability to govern
Yeah, but that sounds quite liberal, and things “liberal” are a big no-no on this website 🗿(even if we’re talking socdems or demsocs).
I have been told by .ml users right out that socdems are basically Nazis and therefore I am the enemy.
Source?
Dude… it was the comment that caused me to block the entire .ml instance months ago. I’m not even sure I can see it anymore, because I blocked the instance. You’re welcome to look through my history and look at replies to a comment from me that said something along the lines of: “I’m open about who I am and what I believe, it’s all right there in my profile.” And them posting that my profile says SocDem and from there on it escalates until I suddenly stop responding, because I have registered that they are arguing in bad faith and that I have simply had spend enough time talking to a wall that had no interest in listening to anything I had to say and just wanted to demonize me.
So go look if you want, but I haven’t got the time and I don’t think I can see that string of comments without unblocking .ml.
Just don’t ask them why Stalin, who first got the idea of calling socdems “social fascists” and declaring them to be the enemy, was so cozy with actual nazis up until 1941. 🌝
Yeah you’ll get a whole ass wall of text that would be an education in history and mid 20th C geopolitics if if you bothered to read it but you won’t bcs then it would be harder to go “lol, commies bad, Molotop Ribbletribble, Tinyman^2, muh US State Dept narrative!”
I mean, I’ve read Soviet history books and encyclopaedias in my childhood. I know Soviet narrative of history and geopolitics, and I also live among living sources on life in USSR, so I’m afraid I don’t really require “education” on that topic from westerners.
Absolutely not, I will only work with people I 100% agree with, and I will happily throw the people I 75% agree with to the people I 0% agree with if I don’t get my way!
/s
Let’s work with the fascists that we don’t 100% agree with /s
Great piece of political wisdom:
“Never say no to a small piece of pie right now. There is time for more pie later.”
Very well said. Take a piece quick, instead of bitching you don’t have your fair share, pieless!
The only group acting like that is you “both sides aren’t the same” types, who call people tankies and commies and “purity testers”, and who post denigrating strawman memes like you did, all because others aren’t voting for the candidate you want them to, despite your so-called tankie enemies ostensibly agreeing on every social issue. What’s the difference between these two groups other than their voting strategy? That sounds like 75% agreement to me. And what is it when you demean these people and shoot down every candidate they’d actually support as “too radical”? Sounds like throwing them to the people you 0% agree with to me.
Maybe double check that sarcasm tag.
What candidate do I want people to vote for this election? What candidate am I shooting down as too radical?
Any third party candidate
Let’s say we had Harris and Mamdani in the running for Democratic nominee. Who would you want nominated? Who would you suggest people vote for?
And if Harris ended up the nominee, you’d want me to vote for her, wouldn’t you? And if I didn’t I’d be, in your mind, exactly the kind of “leftist infighter” and purity tester that you’re posting about, wouldn’t I?
cut to the chase, people making a political stunt to refuse to vote or a symbolic vote for a candidate they knew had no shot (Jill Stein)… all basically voted for Trump.
You can be mad at the DNC for their bullshit, and you’re justified. But when the cards were on the table, the time for debate was over… instead of fighting against the worst president in history… you said “they deserve it”. If that was your attitude, you lose the right to say that you’re against fascism. Because you still had some manner of power to choose, and you chose to not give a fuck.
My thought process was not what you say it is.
My mental model of the election dynamic is more complicated than the one you presented, so bear with me.
My thought process was:
How did we even come to the point that Trump had a shot at winning? And I remember back when we said the same thing about Bush, and about Reagan before that. And then I had a horrible thought:
What if, just like how Reagan presided over the country becoming unbelievably worse, and then Bush presided over that continuing to happen… What if Trump is only the worst thing so far? What if we all vote for an establishment dem out of fear, just as last time, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that… And even if they win (as they do every so often) they don’t really do what anyone wants, and America keeps becoming more and more horrible to live in, and people keep getting more desperate, education keeps getting worse, and suddenly - someone even worse than Trump is now a viable candidate?
After all, America has generally gotten nothing but worse since the 1980s. There have been some serious social wins, but they’re incredibly overshadowed by economic losses. Sure gay people can get married now, but they (ans everyone else) are also far closer to being effectively enslaved than they were 40 years ago…
So with all that in mind I thought, “if only those people in the past, before the consequences were too dire, had stuck to their guns through those hard times and forced the party to really represent them next time” and I realized that, to them, at their time, it must have felt as dire as it felt now to me.
So I made a sacrifice to my own current well-being, because I was trying to lay the groundwork for a greater well-being for everyone in the future. My decision had nothing to do with punishing others, nothing to do with not giving a fuck, and its sad to me that that’s the only explanation you can think of.
I want to say something like: “You lose the right to say you’re against fascism, because you refused to make a short term sacrifice for future generations, you refused to look at even contemporary history, you refused… Etc”
But I won’t say that, because you were trying to do the right thing too, and you just didn’t see the situation the same way as me. But you wanted the same thing. And even though from my perspective, you enabled fascism, I would never dare say you’re not against it just because I disagree with your methods. Try to do me the same courtesy.
bullllllllshit. This is a massive cope you tell yourself.
You sacrificed everyone else for you own pride, end of story. All the other context is a bunch of fluff trying to self-rationalize why it was okay to sell everyone else down the river. Because you can say you did it in some effort to “the greater good”. Well, the kids in ICE cages don’t give af how noble your cause was… and I don’t either.
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The future, even larger amounts of kids in ICE cages dont give af about how noble your cause is. I know its hard for you to understand consequences more than a few years out. Luckily people like me are looking out for those future kids, whereas you? You’re only looking out for yourself.
the only people who voted for trump are the people who voted for Trump. any other vote was a vote against Trump
If in the face of oppression you choose to do nothing, then you have sided with the oppressor.
edit: actual npc account. You pulled this 3 year old alt out of months long hibernation to just to defend voting for Stein (see: Trump enablers).
and people who voted for Jill Stein were voting against war.
You are tripping. Old accounts mean alts, new accounts mean bots, frequent posts mean shills, infrequent posts mean alts again? No need to actually critically engage with any disagreement when every permutation of account activity can be unfalsifiably depicted as illegitimate!
I never worry about someone being a bot or a shill or an alt, because if they’re making a bad argument, I can just present my reasoning against that argument, and it doesn’t matter where it came from. Your points look a lot stronger without trying to question your opponent that way. After all, if a bot posts that the sky is blue, I don’t think you’d start thinking the sky is green? So face a bad argument with a good argument, rather than a fallacy. Do your stance justice.
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You know that and I know that. But dozens of millions of voting Americans are propaganda victims and do NOT know that.
The leaders we need, are ones who can reach out to at least some of those people and show them a path back to civil society.
I’m not talking about the brainwashed/propagandized MAGAts. Those people were always going to vote for facsism.
I’m talking about the people who knew what trump represented, knew what he was going to do because of what he had done… and even when they still had some power to alter things, they went “mmmm the other candidate isn’t perfect, so I don’t care if the proven evil fascist wins, they’re basically the same”
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