• schwifty_squanch@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    Yes… China is state capitalist… Meanwhile, here in the Burger Reich, corporations routinely get bailouts from Uncle Sam paid for by the taxes of the workers.

    If China is State Capitalist, what do you consider the USA?

    • Donkter@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Fake communist societies being state capitalists doesn’t preclude other societies from being state capitalist.

      • Signtist@bookwyr.me
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        23 hours ago

        Yeah, if the response to “this system doesn’t work” is “neither does yours” then we agree that neither system works, and need to find one that does. And if no system will ever work, we need to find some way to live safely and securely without systems.

        • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
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          22 hours ago

          And if no system will ever work, we need to find some way to live safely and securely without systems.

          one just has to look to anthropology, we know what works, the Khalari Bushmen lasted 100,000 years, The Australian Aborigine lasted 60,000 gears, we won’t last another 50.

          We won’t go back voluntarily but we will go back

          for example

          https://aeon.co/essays/why-inequality-bothers-people-more-than-poverty

          Up until then, it was widely believed that hunter-gatherers endured a near-constant battle against starvation, and that it was only with the advent of agriculture that we began to free ourselves from the capricious tyranny of nature.

          When in 1964 a young Canadian anthropologist, Richard Borshay Lee, conducted a series of simple economic input/output analyses of the Ju/’hoansi as they went about their daily lives, he revealed that not only did they make a good living from hunting and gathering, but that they were also well-nourished and content. Most remarkably, his research revealed that the Ju/’hoansi managed this on the basis of little more than 15 hours’ work per week. On the strength of this finding, the anthropologist Marshall Salinas in Stone Age Economics (1972) renamed hunter-gatherers ‘the original affluent society’.

    • psx_crab@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      If China is State Capitalist, what do you consider the USA?

      State capitalist with no tooth. The enemy of your enemy isn’t always your friend, stop defending the bad of the other camp just because you hate the bad from this camp.

    • kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      Fascist with some vestigial elements of liberalism (or maybe liberalism rapidly descending into fascism if you’re feeling generous). In state capitalism, the state controls the corporations. In fascism, the corporations control the state.

      • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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        20 hours ago

        going to quibble just because fascism is a reaction against a threat of a worker’s movement.

        That has been totally crushed in the US currently.

      • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        You are missing class context. In China, the working class control the state, and through them the corporations. In the US, the capitalist control the state and the corporations, and do fascism to prevent the workers from gaining any control over anything.

          • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
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            14 hours ago

            The CPC is made up of members of the working class, who both elect higher representatives and vote directly on numerous issues. Any member of the working class can join the CPC, provided they agree to the system of centralized democracy that governs the party.

            • mrbutterscotch@feddit.org
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              13 hours ago

              By that definition most ‘western’ countries are controlled by the working class too, with the addition that literally everybody in the working class gets to vote.

              • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
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                13 hours ago

                Except in practice, when rich people are allowed to participate in the political process, they use their wealth to influence everything. So in the West, we technically have democracies, but in practice we actually have oligarchies where the entire system is set up to empower the wealthy and prevent the working class from gaining real power. Since China doesn’t allow the capitalists to participate in politics, their democracy remains in the hands of the people.

                • mrbutterscotch@feddit.org
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                  11 hours ago

                  It would be extremely naive to think that the wealth doesn’t influence Party Politics in China.

                  And there is no democracy in China. Electoral Democracy is one of the core pillars of Democracy itself, without it, it simply isn’t democratic. For that to be true in China there would have to be elections where everyone gets to vote.