• 🇨🇦GreenBeard🇨🇦@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 days ago

    I will have to agree to disagree with you, because defending the path not taken can only be done entirely in hypotheticals and theory for which there is no concrete evidence, that said I firmly disagree with the characterization of the peasantry being fully committed to the socialist enterprise. They were cowed by fear, which is a weak substitute at best, which is why I find the bandwagon argument of “well it was popular” uncompelling. Stalin was a Tsar in all but name and he ruled like it. I have enough family who survived it to know who and what he was. Calling what came out of that period “socialist” is technically true, but socialism is a broad enough term to encompass many different systems, not all of which lead to good outcomes. Petty, punitive, and bigoted administration at many levels made a mockery of any claims of true solidarity among the people.

    If you want to truly defend socialist principles, quit trying to sane-wash mistakes and wallpaper over the truth. The USSR was never a good example, let alone an ideal case of socialism in action. Pretending the lessons of the past didn’t happen instead of taking the opportunity to learn from them and do better is the most American thing I can think of. We do not win by stealing from the capitalist playbook.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      5 days ago

      No, the peasantry were not “cowed by fear,” this is ahistorical. Here’s an excerpt from This Soviet World, written by journalist Anna Louise Strong in 1936:

      Among the many flaming words which poured from the hearts of two hundred combined-harvester operators meeting in December 1935 in Moscow with the heads of Party and government, amid jubilation over present success and promises to make the future even more victorious, there was one poignant phrase of contrast with the past.

      “We sons and daughters of peasants—had there been no Soviet power, no Party of Lenin-Stalin, our lot would have been slavery to kulaks, or dawnless poverty in the mire of small peasant farming.”

      These words illumine with a piercing ray the tremendous changes that have taken place in the Soviet rural districts in a span of years so brief that the past still remains vivid in the minds of men not yet thirty years old. “When I worked as a fourteen-year-old farmhand under the tsar,” said the combine operator Kapusta, “I never saw the leaders of the government, never saw even the boss for whom I worked. . . . I never expected from life such happiness, such joy.”

      Five years ago Kapusta was an unskilled worker. But not Kapusta alone; so were they all. What else but unskilled workers were there on the backward individual farms of peasant Russia, where fifteen years ago the tractor was stoned as a “devil machine?” Even five years ago, who among Russian peasants had ever seen a combine-harvester? Today not only are millions of peasants acquainted by sight with the most modern farm machinery, but hundreds of thousands have mastered its operation and make a more continuous use of it than is possible on the private farms of America, which are too small to utilize profitably this modern machine. The combine is already a machine too good for capitalism. The American average harvesting record per combine is 578 acres, while the Soviet average secured in 1935 was 643. The champion operators who met in Moscow spurned this average. They had made records of a thousand, two thousand and even twenty-five hundred acres for the harvest season, and were swearing a solemn oath to train before next harvest many more operators like themselves.

      The time of this great advance has been so short that they can all look back as if to yesterday and recall the days of ignorance and poverty, when they slaved for wealthier farmers or wasted nine-tenths of their labor trudging from strip to strip of their medieval peasant fields. Today the very word “peasant” is passing from their vocabulary. They speak of themselves as “kolhozniks,” members of the collective economy, joint owners and users of the large-scale farm on which they work. They know quite well that if there had been no collectivization of farming, their slavery and darkness would have continued. For if modern machines had come to the Russian soil under capitalist conditions, a minority of successful farmers would have gained the means of production and risen to a brief wealth on the impoverishment of millions—brief until they in turn were robbed by the big banks of the cities, as farmers are under capitalism.

      The soviet model freed the peasantry from a slave-like experience under the Kulak farming. Stalin was no Tsar either, he requested to resign on half a dozen confirmed occasions, only to be rejected. The painting of Stalin as someone worse than, say, Churchill is an invention that came after his death. In his time, he was not feared but loved. An excellent history on the legend of Stalin and how it changed over time is given by Italian philosopher Domenico Losurdo.

      Nobody ever said the Soviet Union was ideal. What it was, is enormously progressive and a dramatic uplifting for working people. There were many problems with it, but the good outweighed the bad. Learning from the past requires understanding the good and the actual bad, not just accepting capitalist framing of socialist states as correct.

      • 🇨🇦GreenBeard🇨🇦@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        A curated history from the mouths of the elites does not make good data. We can all see how the scions of the plutocrats in the US massage the truth and tell us we have never had it so good while we all know full well this is not the life we are actually living. This is not new, in fact it is as old a practice as history itself and the written word. We find fragments of the truth hidden in every nation from ancient Sumeria to Rome, to our present day. I’ll put my faith in the stories of the small people who lived to tell the tale, thank you. It may not make for as compelling reading, but there’s a truth there you won’t find in official statements and official narratives.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          5 days ago

          Anna Louise Strong was an American journalist, not an “elite.” She traveled the USSR, US, and PRC, reporting on the ground. Trusting only anecdotes that conform to your own beliefs, rather than historical record and journalism, doesn’t seem to be very effective historiography.

          • 🇨🇦GreenBeard🇨🇦@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            5 days ago

            On the contrary, a lot of journalists have a research bias toward institutional narratives crafted by governing insiders. It does make for a lot less work to draw from official sources since they’re the natural convergence point for diverse data sources, but it is subject to elite distortions. They might not consider themselves elite, but those of us in information industries have to work much harder to maintain an unvarnished connection to the vox populi, especially when researching questions the authorities don’t want the answers to, or at least don’t want to become common knowledge. Developing a rich historiography of a stratified society has always been a problem and has always favoured the elite classes, precisely because of sociological forces that suppress an accurate account of the underclasses. And yes, the CPSU just as the CPC are today do in fact constitute an elite class under a Marxist analysis. I’ve met far to many ".ml"s who aren’t even willing to acknowledge that much. I doubt even the CPSU itself would contest that description, describing it as a necessary, if ultimately temporary intermediate step.

            Social sciences are nowhere near as clean as you’re implying and the standards of evidence you’re applying demonstrate a weak understanding of the subject. Historians have long acknowledged “history” favours the elite because their records and narratives are the ones that tend to get preserved, and you would know that if you were applying honest academic rigour to the problem.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              5 days ago

              “Elite class” isn’t a thing in Marxist analysis. Classes are relations to ownership of the means of production, administrators in socialism share the same relations to ownership as the rest of the working class. Your skepticism towards journalists and hard data is unfounded, your skepticism of anecdote should be far more so.

              • 🇨🇦GreenBeard🇨🇦@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                5 days ago

                The hell it isn’t. You haven’t got the foggiest clue what Marx wrote do you. Let me guess you read the manifesto and thought you were an edgy contrarian didn’t you. Marx wrote a library of works on relational ethics and sociology, as well as economics. If you think he stopped at ownership you have barely scratched the surface. As bad as the capitalists that read Wealth of Nations and didn’t bother to read the rest of Smith or the other capitalist thinkers.

                I’m skeptical of everyone. They all tell the truth in their own way, and dismissing anyone outright is foolish, but it’s important to know their blind spots as well. I was raised in a firehose of lies and half truths. From every side of the argument, the ones I’m most sympathetic to included. I can feel the spin on your take from your take a thousand miles away.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  Marx never once mentions an “elite class,” because class is based on relations to ownership of the means of production, not arbitrary vibes. Marx mentions the ruling class, which is the class in society that controls the commanding heights of the economy and the state, but this is not a class in and of itself but merely a descriptor for the actual underlying class that does, such as capitalists or workers. I’ve read the Manifesto, sure, but a lot more than that, and not once did Marx separate from materialism and enter vibes-based analysis like you allege.

                • Mastengwe@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  4 days ago

                  Consider who you’re taking to. This clown is shoved so far up Russia’s ass there needs to be a procedure named after them.