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It’s not infighting if we’re not within the same organization or coalition. It’s just fighting.
Then quit running DSA candidates under the DNC.
I wish they’d do that too, but also real “but you participate in society, curious” energy there given that America is under a two party system.
No, in context its a very real criticism of their stance. Stop trying to jam every thought terminating cliche into every conversation that criticizes your ideology.
I can’t believe I’ve lived long enough to see “thought-terminating cliche” become a thought-terminating cliche.
More seriously, yes it’s criticism; it’s just (for the reason I gave) not very good criticism. The way the American system works, you don’t need to agree with or like the people in a party to run under its name, and under a two-party system there’s no reason to self-impose that condition.
Again youre missing the context.
Op was saying there is no coalition. If that were true quit trying build one with the DNC. Otherwise, if the DSA can stand on its own, it would have.
Thats why he went straight to gatekeeping because he knows its true that leftys side with liberals in the usa.
I’m not it’s literally right there.
Again, an important feature of the American system is that you don’t have to do that to run under a party’s name. Borrowing the label for name recognition is something you can do here and it doesn’t mean you’re in the same team as the rest of the party.
Again, context has no meaning to you.
If you tent with the DNC youre going to pull support from entrenched liberals. It doesn’t matter what your intentions are unless its just to drag the whole thing down. If the DSA does become the majority voice they are still dependant on liberals to uphold the party. Force them out and you will only revitalize the GOP. If thats youre goal fine but youre not better for it.
Or maybe you are but its yet to be seen that a Leftist majority can maintain power. At the very least you should make your intentions more clear and then ill hand it to you.
Yeah I’m an anarchist, I don’t care about platforming Democratic “”“socialists”“”. Actually, I think the DSA ultimately siphons good people away from fighting oppression into liberal power structures, i.e. they benefit liberalism more than they help advance anti-capitalist worker power. There are definitely good people in the DSA, but IMO they’re wasting their time and energy.
I mean you can discount the socialists as a part of the left if you want. Im just saying titles have lost their usefulness at that level of scrutiny.
At least anarchists and socialists have the same end goal in mind
Not to be divisive, but…not completely. I would argue that anarchism is more comprehensive in its desire to eliminate hierarchy and authority than socialism. Anarchists are socialists, but most anarchists want to go further than socialism, and we all want to do it in a way that respects means-ends unity, i.e. the means we use to achieve our ends should resemble those ends.
For this reason, even though anarchists and other socialists both want to abolish capitalism and put workers in control of the means of production…we have wildly different visions for what that looks like. We share a common language primarily, and many common values (e.g. egalitarianism, anti-racism, anti-fascism, feminism, anti-LGBTphobia, internationalism, anti-imperialism, anti-capitalism), but the theoretical and practical divide between anarchism and Marxism is fundamental.
That being said, non-anarchist socialists are absolutely leftists. No question. We do share enough commonality to share that label. But we do not have exactly the same goals.
I’d argue that’s most socialists. Ideologically I’m an anarcho-communist, if I could snap my fingers and instantly give everyone class consciousness and a stable anarch-communist society, I would. But I can’t, so I think in terms of steps to get there. Shifting the perspectives of hundreds of millions of people takes time and effort.
Right now, the next obvious step to me is market socialism. Eventually the market should yield to spontaneous mutual aid, but that will take time. Consequentially, I presently advocate Democratic Socialism. Once we have that, I’ll take another step towards anarchy, rinse and repeat.
I think this perspective underestimates the strength of the forces opposing us. Not just the actual individuals deliberately working against us, but also the alienated and propagandized working class.
Until you lock them both in a room together with no one else.
Really living up to your username
Youre pretty clever. You know.
I’m discounting the DSA specifically as a part of the left, with the caveat that this is a minority opinion. While as an anarchist I absolutely disagree with other socialists on a variety of issues, clearly anarchists and non-anarchist socialists are leftists.