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This comment section right here is all the proof that there will be no salvation in November.
Every pig-ignorant savior is so absolutely certain that their ideologically pure solution is the only acceptable way to fix anything that everyone is going to cancel each other out and it’s just going to continue sliding towards the cliff edge.
Under NO circumstances attempt to learn ANY lessons from parliamentary coalitions who banded together to stop the hijacking of their governments by radical fascists despite sweeping policy disagreements. Everyone keep nitpicking every minute detail, make no compromises whatsoever no matter the costs, and make stupid, pointless, self-destructive, aggrandizing gestures so you can talk down to strangers on the internet, and enjoy the ride to hell.
Yes, kids, just keep doing the thing that created the problem and it’ll fix it any day now.
Hitler was elected. If I’m to take your implication correctly, you don’t think that vote happened or did anything?
You clearly aren’t taking my implication correctly, since it has no application to an election that happened almost 100 years ago.
But you also clearly don’t understand your own point either. Hitler was elected to a fairly low level legislative position, he was appointed as Chancellor by Liberal politicians, who found him a more agreeable alternative to the Communists when they couldn’t hold the Chamcellorship themselves. So the only thing you’re proving here is my point: Liberal will always choose to ally with Fascists against Communism, but never ally with Communists against Fascism.
You’ll never end the Neoliberal Status Quo by voting for a Democrat.
Ah okay, so there can be no lessons learned from history? That’s an interesting take I don’t think I’ve ever seen before.
Again, Hitler was elected. Rising to more power later is true, but you’re bending over backwards to miss my point.
I see you’ve literally never heard of the DSA in the US. Blind to history, blind to modern politics, all conveniently so you can push your propaganda. Interesting.
Going from “that specific thing I said and the specific election you brought up in response have nothing to do with each other” to that is quite the reach, even for someone deluded enough to think that voting for the Blue Liberals over the Red Liberals makes things better
And again, that had nothing to do with Liberals elevating him because they prefer to ally with fascists against communists than the other way around.
But I take it back. There is one instructive takeaway from Hitler’s election that does seem relevant to the current circumstances:
Hitler was only able to be elected to that low level position because greedy capitalists had crushed the working class so hard that fascist strongman rhetoric became appealing to the average citizen.
Kinda like how the DNC has spent 45 years doing their level best to help the GOP gut the working class and reduce everyone who isn’t a billionaire to serfdom. In both cases, it’s the background radiation of Liberal collusion with capitalist greed that enables the rise of Fascism.
I guess I don’t have to read further than this. If I recall correctly (because there’s been a lot of you and I’m not bothering to scroll up to double-check), I know your starting premise was that the DNC and GOP are literally identical, so it shouldn’t surprise me that you’re rephrasing that, but seeing you double-down was enough for me to realize I’m wasting my time with either someone who has been propagandized or is a propagandist.
Seeya. Another @lemmy.ml for the block list.
The US is not a parlimentary system. You’re failing to understand the situation from right off the bat.
It really makes me feel like the arguments (and votes) to the contrary (which are plenty throughout this thread) are coming from one of two kinds of people:
Foreign interests attempting to push the US further towards fascism
Incredibly naive people, likely including children
I just don’t see how else a Trolley Problem answer like “I can’t touch the lever, because that would mean I killed someone” could be applied here. You can either sit back and allow the US to slide further towards fascism or you can vote for the party lightly tapping the brakes. When it’s primary season again, we can resume the very valid conversation about opposing the rightmost factions of the DNC.
Imagine a system where there are two rounds of voting, where we vote for a dinner we must all eat, between Salad, Sand, or Sewage. For numerous and mostly stupid reasons, Salad loses the first round and we now have to vote for Sand or Sewage.
I’m voting Sand, y’all. I know you’d rather eat Salad, and I would too, but it’s off the table as of the end of the primaries. Encouraging people not to vote for Sand just pushes us towards being forced to eat Sewage.
Yes, it’s infuriating. But here we are.
because both lever paths are going on the same track. That’s the problem.
Every single one of these analogies is doing a specific thing - ignoring that there will be future elections.
Yes, if you’re going to vote once for Sand or Sewage, you take Sand. But that is NOT the real choice. What you’re actually voting for is “Sand now, Sewage to follow, since we’re eliminating Salad”.
See 2020 - and how that led to 2024 - for a perfect example.
Nope.
Open fascism is not the exact same as half-hearted resistance to fascism, and any argument to the contrary incites voter apathy which the fascists depend on. Similarly, voting against fascism does not drive the country further into fascism.
Vote with your heart during the primaries, and in the general you vote with your brain while plugging your nose.
Your stance only makes sense if you’re unaware of the Spoiler Effect. Here’s some reading for you on the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect
Of course it is - because if you’re not going to change direction, then slowing down the speed which you move to fascism doesn’t matter.
And the Democrats as they stand are effective ONLY at stopping any move to the left.
Use your brain. Has your strategy worked? It’s been done for literally 3 decades, and the US has drifted more and more to the right.
It’s not hard to understand why, either, if you actually use your brain. You’ve removed any consequence for the supposed opposition to move to the right.
In a 2 party system, the most marginal voter is the one that sets policy. And you’re demanding that the left make themselves the least marginal.
It is funny how shitlibs hold onto their arrogance above all. It’s one reason why your brand is even more poisonous than the GOP, who most people do hate. They just hate you more, and this is why.
“A spoiler campaign in the United States is often one that cannot realistically win”
So Kamala was a spoiler?
This is beating around the bush because we’re clearly using different definitions and you’re getting increasingly ridiculous (straw-men and ad hominem) because you aren’t getting any traction with logical arguments.
So let’s establish what you’re actually advocating for, as I’ve already made my stance clear above:
Which POTUS candidate did you vote for (or would you have voted for if you were eligible) in 2016?
Which POTUS candidate did you vote for (or would you have voted for if you were eligible) in 2020?
Which POTUS candidate did you vote for (or would you have voted for if you were eligible) in 2024?
Hell kiddo, I’ll do you better . . . because I’ve got the mileage to show exactly how sick of this bullshit the Democratic Party does I am. Do you want the names of the rotating villians they used for the bait and switch as well? Cause I’ve got those.
2000 - Bradley primary / Nader general 2004 - Dean primary / Kerry general (volunteered for both) 2008 - Obama primary / Obama general (volunteered for both) 2012 - neither 2016 - Bernie primary (volunteered) / Hillary general 2020 - Bernie primary (volunteered) / Biden general (against my better judgement) 2024 - Marianne primary (what little there was) / De La Cruz general
When I tell you your Vote Blew No Matter Hoo nonsense doesn’t work, it’s because I’ve been there.
Okay cool, so you did the right thing by voting strategically until 2024, where you threw away your vote.
Whenever you see a headline with Trump in it, I hope you feel responsible.
I voted not to support genocide.
You threw away your vote - unless support for genocide is what you wanted?
No, I didn’t nominate Harris. I didn’t make her ignore her own campaign reports that Gaza could lose her the election.
You, meanwhile, enabled that, and seem to not only fail to reflect on that, but are proud of it. So you’ll probably make the same mistake again next time.
Not only are they expecting it to go over the cliff’s edge, they are outright hoping for a collapse-level event.
They believe the only way forward is for a catastrophe to happen to make ‘the masses’ accept their “told you so” and will magically follow them when the time comes, that elections are broadly counter-productive because ‘the masses’ are, effectively, ill equipped to take care of their self-interests and need a core of ‘smart people’ to make the decisions for them. No where do I see how they reconcile their inability to win a contest of rhetoric but somehow win whatever decidedly less civilized power contest that would happen in such a catastrophe.
I will say I don’t see a realistic chance of the ‘best’ outcome, even if the legislature finally is opposed to the executive branch, we are dealing with an executive branch that is willing to break laws and only 2/3rds of Senate could hold it accountable, and that’s absolutely not going to happen. But it is certainly worth a shot to move the needle in the right direction.
Also, the coalition scenario doesn’t play out in the American system, so we could use some unlikely seeming reforms to get there. More parties with a more sophisticated voting system and perhaps removal of directly elected executive.
are ‘they’ in the room with us right now?
Judging from the comment section, yes