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Aren’t all political theories like this? Communism gives rise to privileged ruling class and tends to take worker’s rights away when in theory it is supposed to equalize and support worker’s rights, planning an economy to distribute goods equally creates inefficiencies. Democracies create plutocracies, Fascism leads to cronyism, Anarchism leaves gaps for might makes right-thinking, Monarchies claim divine right and then falls to civil war and assassinations who then claimed the same divine right rule.
I also think it is rather silly to call everything liberalism or throwing that blanket on every action a country does because it calls itself liberal. A country that calls itself liberal can still do imperialism, a country that calls itself fascist can still do socialism, a country that calls itself a democracy can still do authoritarianism.
Government, politics, political theory, economy. They’re big beasts, they don’t just do what they say on the tin.
You’re just spitting vibes, Doom. Imperialism and Liberalism are compatible. Communism makes the working class into the ruling class and doesn’t make a new one. When you talk of workers “right” you’re confusing communism and liberalism. Communism isn’t about workers rights as defined by Liberalism. Communism is about the interests of the working class driving the decisions of the state. Which is why every communist project ever has raised the poorest of the poor into food abundance, housing abundance, positive health outcomes, and positive education outcomes. These things are what the working class needs and sometimes the path there tramples on what liberals imagine are metaphysical “rights”.
No. Liberalism creates plutocracies. Your definition of democracy is limited to existing liberal democracies. Real democracy is when the people have the ability to influence the state, which is what communist movements have done successfully despite being called “undemocratic” by the Liberals. Mostly because Liberalism cannot abide a state deciding to nationalize its natural resources.
This is probably the strongest evidence that you’re all vibes and no awareness.
That’s why we think there’s no such thing as “authoritarianism” in a meaningful sense. All states are, by definition, authoritarian. Democracy is not an opposite of authority.
At this point, you might as well say “Liberalism is all the good things and none of the bad things and all the bad things are not liberalism because liberalism is all the good things”
Lost me almost immediately.
“You’re just spitting vibes”
This is the lamest version of the debate pervert.
I’m glad you’ll learn nothing from anything that happened here then. Carry on
Lol, you think youre shitposting the revolution
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you’ve decided what you think not what reality says. Liberalism didn’t exist in Rome. Communism absolutely has it’s own woes and your cheerleading of it just makes you look very silly. I guess the Aral Sea never existed.
Your brain is rotted by media. It’s very funny how many “communists” screech theory and then aren’t able to discuss theory.
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Last post 9 hours ago.
Decides to reply to my random comment down a chain on a thread you had no opinion on beforehand. 7 minutes into your comment you get an upvote?
That seems legit. Exposed yourselves idiot.
You see me often? My 1 month old account you see often? I think I’ve had maybe 3 of these types of conversations. That’s often?
Absolutely lying. Lmfao. Are you guys friends or same account? What’s going on here hm?
And Democracy isn’t what produced the the plutocracy in Rome. I did not said plutocracies are only produced by liberalism. I said that democracies are not the cause of plutocracies unless you limit yourself to liberal democracies. There are plenty of examples of democracies that don’t produce plutocracies. And nearly every liberal democracy started under the conditions of plutocracy already. Again, it’s not like liberal democracies were primarily a grassroots movement by peasants.
But I just really can’t believe how far up your own ass you are to bring up Rome and blame it on democracy.
Roman plutocracy emerged because its systems were literally organized by wealth with wealthy people having more say in bodies like the Comitia Centuriata and with wealth requirements for holding office, especially for senators.
It wasn’t democracy that created plutocracy in Rome and you would know that if you weren’t clearly consuming the shallowest reinterpretations of history I’ve encountered since middle school.
I never said communism doesn’t have problems. I was contrasting it with Liberalism. For someone who wants to talk theory, you sure seem to have no concept of what that means.
Wow. Just wow. The multi-trillion-dollar mass media hegemony of the last several centuries dominated by liberalism has somehow created a situation where my brain is rotted for understanding history but yours is high theory because you believe the shallowest myths of liberalism.
You’re a clown, Doom.
The amount you try to wedge words in to change what you’re saying is a joke. Every argument you make relies on equivocating so you can bend it.
Ok
Oh okay.
You’re a moron, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Playing chess with a pigeon. You have no clue what you’re talking about, you literally don’t even know what liberalism is. Get a job.
Great example of discussing theory, Doom. Honestly. I cannot imagine operating with your level of sheer ignorance and your level of sheer arrogance.
You try so hard to be insulting but you’re just pissing on yourself while you do it. I tried to talk to you before, you increasingly got pissy and rude so why would I bother?
Because you claim that I am the one who can’t discuss theory when I have provided so much more historical context and analysis of the conflict between values and power around the history and development of Liberalism while you have made broad and clearly inaccurate generalities, established that you think history has no bearing on theory, and stated a single position that liberalism’s foundation is abstract universal rights and that anyone who disagrees with that position is not only clearly uneducated but has a media-rotted brain and is incapable of discussing theory.
I mean, I see it. I’m sure others see it. You don’t seem to be able to see it
Never did that.
Literally did the opposite.
Nope I did not.
Nope.
Are you like actually retarded? I don’t ask this lightly. I went into your comment history and you do this to a lot of people and they express having the same experience I have. That you just wildly flop around claiming things, move goal posts, claim nonsense and it’s almost like you’re on drugs when you’re reading.
This entire thread has you doing laps disconnecting the historical context liberalism came from claiming it has this nefarious start of merchants basically lying. Your historical context is skewed and really just absolutely incorrect.
That’s skewed and wrong.
Stupid perspective.
Stupid
Stupid
Stupid
Very fucking stupid, do you think Thomas Jefferson created liberalism?
Completely ignorant.
It’s all stupid and ignorant because you’re completely failing to understand the environment these ideals were thought under, multiple people in this thread have pointed it out. Liberalism was not thought up by a cabal of merchants, it wasn’t created by the Illuminati with a goal, it wasn’t fashioned as a tool. It came about from people realizing the increasing failures of monarchies and realizing they were able to move away from the crown as a backbone of society and establish something else. It was literally the only educated folk at the time stumbling into the darkness and searching for something more. They did their best with the language and understanding they had to cobble together an argument for individual’s rights. Literally the easiest way to ever make anyone understand is to teach the origins of the word villain and then ask them how to argue against that concept in the face of a king or noble. Those first few steps will lead anyone towards basically liberalism, the concept of self-determination becomes obvious. Everything else follows.
The way you express yourself is this weird frankenstein view where you’re looking at the ultra rich liberals and claiming those are the core beliefs of liberalism. It was not because merchants had a goal, it is because society moved away from what it was before and people felt it.
You think this sounded smart, but it means fucking nothing. Political theories are abstract, they are ideals. When anyone tries to point out even in the slightest way that your view is crooked you respond like this:
You’re a child, you’re an asshole and above all you’re a fucking idiot suffering from some hardcore Dunning-Kruger energy. You think you know, when others reply normally and push back you embrace your inner little bitch energy and just completely crumble. You do not discuss, you cry.
Then you say shit like this :
And expose exactly why you’re so dumb. Because you decided what you believe, not the actual truth. Communist movements have not successfully done that, they have always created a massive divide in wealth under the umbrella of equality. They are usually ruled by a wealthy privileged elite, really only Cuba you could make an argument hasn’t done that but they still have the same issue where citizens who have access to foreign currency exist far above those who do not.
You say shit like this:
and then instantly contradict yourself.
So no you can’t discuss theory, you can’t even discuss. You cry, insult, bitch, complain, you’re nasty and immature and really just fucking stupid. You don’t understand history. You contradict yourself, you move goalposts, you equivocate what you say, you try all these mental gymnastics because like I said, you’ve decided what you think is true and not actual reality. You’re fucking dumb. Stop talking to me lmfao