On Sunday, Fox News reported, “Calls to repeal women’s rights to vote are emerging from the online firestorm over the Lindsay Clancy trial, prompting Republican women to warn that the intraparty rhetoric could hurt the GOP.”

The fact that this article was published by Fox News was itself noteworthy. Press Baron Rupert Murdoch is one of the few remaining centers of power on the right who is strong enough to pick fights with Trump and his MAGA supporters. In recent years, Murdoch’s outlets have carved out a position for themselves as gatekeepers who work to protect the GOP brand from the most self-destructive impulses of MAGA. One recent example of this phenomenon is the decision to fire (or at least take off the air) the firebrand election denier Maria Bartiromo.

The Fox article was also significant for highlighting how the tragic case of Lindsay Clancy is being exploited by the hard right to justify misogyny. Clancy killed three of her children in 2023. Her legal defense was that she suffered from postpartum psychosis and bipolar disorder. Eleven jurors voted to acquit Clancy based on this argument, but one juror resisted, leading to a mistrial.

Nine of the jurors who voted to acquit—presumably because they thought Clancy deserved pity rather than harsh punishment—were women; the lone holdout was a man. The hard right has seized on these facts to justify arguments that women are incapable of reason. The Fox article quoted a post on X that made a common argument: “The female jurors in the Lindsay Clancy trial are speaking out about their deliberations and disagreements with the sole male holdout. The more they speak the better they make the case for repealing the 19th Amendment.”

  • rabber@lemmy.ca
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    1 day ago

    I actually think this case was a psyop designed to erode women’s rights

    If tiktok never pushed this then Clancy would have went to prison and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation

    • 5318008@lemmy.ml
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      17 hours ago

      If tiktok never pushed this then Clancy would have went to prison and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation

      Her lawyer was discussing the parameters of an insanity plea back in March. This was long before the case blew up on social media.

      It’s entirely feasible that she would have gotten an insanity ruling without social media influence.

    • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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      24 hours ago

      Yeah I agree with this.

      Some of these TikToks have gone viral and they’ve been incredibly extreme, with some of them showing women discussing wanting to murder their children(without any irony or satire).

      Even videos that clearly are parody have felt dangerous because the right preys upon people not knowing where the boundaries between irony/satire/parody is and genuine belief in what the content is presenting.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
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        16 hours ago

        She could at least wear some safety glasses. Throwing ice at a bathtub seems like a good way to get ice to ricochet into your eyeball.

        • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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          23 hours ago

          Well yes but I haven’t posted any of the more violent parodies. I’d rather not.

          I also want to point out that I’m not agreeing with this in any way shape or form, but rather I like many others predicted it unfortunately.

          • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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            23 hours ago

            Using a handful of fringe extremist examples and then applying that to all women is problematic.

            • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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              23 hours ago

              I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying here.

              I’m not applying it to all women. The discussion was mainly centered around the reactions and that they existed. And the possibility that the outrage was stoked and pushed towards certain extremes in order to provide an excuse.

              • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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                23 hours ago

                The article that we’re conversing about is talking about applying these cases to all women and stripping women of their rights because of that.

                Conservatives are constantly looking for ways to disenfranchise minorities, including women. The Clancy case didn’t need to be astro-turfed to cause this kind of reaction.

                • rabber@lemmy.ca
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                  23 hours ago

                  It was astro turfed though and now maga will use these extreme reactions posted on tiktok to say all women are insane

                  I said this to you a few weeks ago and you downvoted me and you essentially said i’m crazy but here we are

                  • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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                    23 hours ago

                    MAGA would have latched on to anything to say all women are insane or to justify stripping women of our rights. This isn’t new. Hell, a postpartum psychosis murder case isn’t new - look at Andrea Yates.

                    You were probably pushing that it’s women on TikTok that are causing this like you did in another comment here. Pushing that this is an astro-turfed subject is also pulling the conversation away from reforming healthcare and focusing more on women’s health which is the bigger conversation that’s happening on a larger scale.

        • rabber@lemmy.ca
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          23 hours ago

          Every person I know sympathizing with her including my gf is a regular tiktok scroller, for what that’s worth, haha

          • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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            23 hours ago

            There are many more conversations about this happening outside of TikTok.

            To counter your anecdotal evidence, I’ve never watched TikToks and especially not on this topic. I still sympathize with Clancy.

      • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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        23 hours ago

        Besides the psychosis can you explain to me what else they might be empathizing with?

        Maybe I’m missing knowledge about the case somewhere but I have tried to go over the various points of the case that I’m aware of in order to give her some validation and I’ve really struggled.

        Edit

        I appreciate your time and what you have shared. I decided to spend more time googling the case and looking up the details.

        I don’t disagree with anything you’ve shared at all.

        That said, some of the more extreme viral content of people showing solidarity with her has been people making content showing them pretend to hurt their children.

        We are both well aware that conservatives are always scheming about ways in which to remove the rights of others. So yes, I do think there is merit to the idea that this was astroturfed someway in order to provide them with a casus belli.

        • Lady Butterfly she/her@reddthat.com
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          18 hours ago

          There’s a lot of concerns about the investigation. The police arrive to 3 dead children and a woman with catastrophic injuries and the husband saying she did it. The husband’s phone or phone records weren’t seized, as far as I can work out his clothing wasnt seized, her apple watch wasnt seized, blood on the bedroom door knob wasn’t swabbed, there’s a roughly 15 minute gap in the timeline where he’s not accounted for, and multiple other things. His phone should have been seized cos apart from anything else, the cops may not have been able to get into hers.

          The children deserved a high quality investigation and didn’t get it. A lot of people have understandable concerns about the evidence.

        • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          24 hours ago

          Women’s healthcare has been neglected for a long time. Health studies routinely treat women as smaller men. That includes during pregnancy and postpartum care. There are many, many women who have struggled with postpartum depression, and some psychosis, and did not receive any help from their doctors, husbands, families, etc.

          The maternal mortality rate in the US is the highest of any developed nation.

          So there are thousands to millions of women who desperately needed help, who were drowning while having to care for a newborn and possibly other children, with very little to no help at all. They were forced to tough it out. Sometimes being forced to tough out getting scant hours of sleep each night and healing from birth and dealing with postpartum depression leads to mental breaks and psychosis.

          Many mothers can empathize with that feeling of being abandoned and having to put everything ahead of taking care of themselves to their own detriment. We’re often told to lose weight, we’re hysteric, we just need to take a break, whatever when we seek help for women’s health issues. Women are often not taken seriously when we report symptoms.

          Have you read the Lemon Clot story? It is focused on having to entertain guests during the postpartum period, but it’s an eye-opening look at some of the physical ailments women deal with immediately after birth:

          You will be leaking out of places you don’t want to leak out of. Do you really want to stand up from the couch and have your father’s parents see that not only have you bled through your pad, but the blood is now running down your leg. Do you really want to say, “honey, can you come with me to the bathroom, I am bleeding all over and I feel a huge bloodclot coming out”… in front of them? Contrast that to “mom, I need your help please, now, I’m bleeding all over!” Does your husband really understand the volume of stuff that will be coming out of you, the possibility of lemon-sized clots of blood? Not 2-dimensional lemon-sized, but huge, round, 3-dimensional lemon-sized?

          How many bathrooms do you have? If only one, do you REALLY want to have to make it “guest-level clean” every time you leave it? Do you really want this gang of people ogling your diaper-sized pads, peribottle, tucks pads, and all the other supplies that will be in the bathroom? Even if you have two bathrooms, that means you can’t use the main bathroom, because you still have to leave it “guest-level clean” every time you use it.

          Do they really plan to do something other than hold the baby, pass the baby around, and sit around expecting you guys to wait on them? Are they going to sit and stare at you? Thirty minutes after they arrive, and baby wants to breastfeed, are they going to quickly and willingly LEAVE your home so that you can breastfeed in the privacy and comfort of your space? Or are they going to hang around outside, waiting for you to be done, and knocking every so often wanting to know if they can come back in? Yeah, that’s great for breastfeeding.

          Or better yet, are they going to blow you off, saying “it’s no big deal”, and expect you to breastfeed in front of them? Even experienced moms need several weeks of practice to get good at it, so to speak, so that they can breastfeed wherever they want. Learning to breastfeed is not a time for people to ogle and stare at you.

          When your breasts are engorged and painful and you want NOTHING to touch them, what then? Does your [dear husband] think it will be okay for his dad to stare at your huge naked breasts as you walk around topless?

          What if your birth is smack in the middle of their trip? So what are they going to do the first few days, before baby? Are they going to sit and stare at you, waiting for the big moment? Then what? Are they going to camp out in your hospital room every day, all day? Yeah, that’s great for resting. What happens when you leave the hospital and they beat you to your own home, and all you want to do is lay down in your own bed? Are they going to leave graciously, or are they going to sit in your living room, eating your food, messing up your house, and making noise, so you can’t nap?

          Does your [dear husband] understand ANY of these things?? Does he not understand that it is NOT about entertaining guests, but about recovery from a major medical procedure (either vaginal or c-section)? Does he not understand that you just grew another human being in your body, and will have just gone through the process of getting it out?? This is going to be an exhausting, messy, wildly hormonal time. Does he not get that??

          • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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            23 hours ago

            Well, none of this was anything new to me. I have read Lemon Clot as well.

            Again, I’m very sympathetic towards this and a lot of this does apply to Clancy, but she’s also in a different class than most women. She had access to a lot more than the average woman did, hence why I struggle to understand the surge of sympathy towards her in particular.

            This is why I mentioned my possible lack of knowledge on the case.

            • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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              23 hours ago

              Even with her access to more than the average woman, she didn’t receive adequate care. It’s actually because she’s an affluent white woman that we’re even talking about this case and the overwhelming issues with women’s healthcare that helped lead to this tragedy.

              You can believe that Clancy deserves prison. But to use this case to argue that women and mothers don’t need a better system or better help when they are struggling is my main issue with most conversations surrounding this. Or worse, to argue that women are too emotional and too beholden to our hormones to make rational decisions or to be trusted with our own children.

              This woman asked for help and her family and doctors didn’t do enough. That’s my personal opinion. And having been a woman who was abandoned by her husband and family during a postpartum period, I can empathize with Clancy and what it took to push her to the point of psychosis.

              Postpartum can be an incredibly dark and scary time for women. I would never wish what I went through on my worst enemy.

        • velma@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          21 hours ago

          Conservatives will use whatever excuse is available to try to strip women of their rights. I think it’s lazy to shrug this issue off as just another way for conservatives to exert control even if there’s some truth to it. Because when you assert that the reason so many people are invested in this is because of bad actors, you’re ignoring the very real women and allies that are shouting from the roof tops about the issues with women’s healthcare.

          Why not wrangle this topic to push the conversation about improving health outcomes for women instead of telling others to be quiet because conservatives might use our concerns to subjugate us?

          • Stolas@lemmy.ca
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            17 hours ago

            instead of telling others to be quiet because conservatives might use our concerns to subjugate us?

            I have never said this and I would appreciate it if you didn’t put words into my mouth. My statement was in regards towards how people have chosen to act in solidarity towards Clancy.

            Obviously a lot of these acts have been used against you but more importantly they haven’t done anything to shine a light on these issues either. Posting videos on socials pretending to abuse your children in support of her doesn’t shine a light on these issues or even show that they exist.

            There’s a reason I edited my post and left it at that. I’m not really sure you get what I’m saying and it’s fine. I support the cause and I appreciate the heightened awareness you’ve given myself and anyone else that reads the comment chain on the issues.

    • CrimeIsLegalNow@ani.social
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      19 hours ago

      No. She’d be in a psych ward for twenty years after her not guilty verdict wasn’t derailed into mistrial by a magat.

      • rabber@lemmy.ca
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        19 hours ago

        The belief that there is no excuse for killing children is a belief held by people of all political views

        • CrimeIsLegalNow@ani.social
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          14 hours ago

          But only magat trash is too stupid to understand mental illness as a defense against criminality, and too lazy to look up what that means.